WRITING: why NOT fan fiction?
Sep. 26th, 2008 11:10 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
shalanna*shock* Another post actually about writing? OR at least containing musings regarding the ethics of and/or practicality of spending time on fan fiction (which I know is a VERY popular pursuit nowadays)?
Yeah, it is. Gimme a break . . . I know I'm not any kind of authority and that I've even come out and ADMITTED that I'm not going to have any commercial success with fiction, but I've spent an awful lot of time studying related topics, writing fiction, and analyzing fiction (mine and others'), so I keep thinking that some of my experiences might benefit those of you who still have a chance out there. So sue me. If you don't like it, just skip the entry.
This morning, author Barbara Ferrer (![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
fashionista_35) analyzed some of the reasons why authors might object to fan fiction--and it's a cool scenario that she sets up, one I would never have thought of. See it on her journal. Then go read the "Smart B*tches, Trashy Books" site to see the original discussion. I think they make some valid points, although they're not the points I would have made.
As far as *I* am concerned, I wouldn't mind if somebody wrote a really screwed-up pastiche of _Dulcinea_ or a totally out-there Ariadne mystery and nailed it to all the telephone poles in town . . . I would be so gobsmacked at the notion that someone thought it was good enough to copy/steal that you'd have to scrape me off the floor with Britney Spears' girdle. I would find it flattering. If people became aware of my work through that, even if they were disrespectful of it (what ELSE is new?) and disdainful of it (just like everyone else), I would be of the notion that "there is no such thing as BAD publicity." After all, have not the many pop divas of the world benefited from their bad publicity, almost as much as from their good publicity? Same with Dallas Cowboys football players of yore. No, it wouldn't bother me if people did this, EXCEPT that I would caution that they're wasting their time, as the original never sold, so why not start something of their own that might turn out salable? (Yes, I know that many people feel they don't want to sell and that they just want to play . . . I still think it's a helluva lot of work even to write a BAD novel, and I always have so much invested by the end that I want to see it published. For real. Not just on my journal.)
fashionista_35's analysis, however, presents one good scenario of how an author might become upset with fanfic writers. So many people think nothing of taking another person's intellectual property and claiming it's "fair use" or that they're a "public figure" and therefore can have whatever they do copied (I've heard all sorts of screwed-up notions about THAT from people who should know better.) Here's what I wrote in her comment thread.
When I was a kid in fourth grade, I got into trouble for fan fiction of a sort. We were assigned to write a story. I had recently read some series book or another (not Bobbsey Twins, as I had finished that series already) and had been impressed by the convoluted-but-plausible (to my fourth-grade mind) plot and one or two then-memorable characters. So I wrote a pastiche-type story using the first names of two of the characters and a very similar plot *moved from Montana to Texas* and with a few other minor changes that polished the serial numbers off a bit. I was impressed with my work because I had actually written my own dialogue and made up a lot of stuff . . . y'know. (This would have been *ahem* before 1970, when school was quite different from now.) I didn't see any problem, as the series was well known to be written as work-for-hire under a pseudonym, and I saw this as just another episode.
Well, the teacher and PRINCIPAL didn't. The day that the stories came back graded, several kids were asked to read theirs aloud to the class, and several got awards. I sat there waiting for mine to be handed back, and got more and more upset as nothing was said. The bell rang, and the teacher asked me to stay a moment and come up to her desk.
I had been given an F. I was an A+ student and usually the one who got singled out as having done the best job, etc., so this was a complete shock. The teacher said I was no better than a plagiarist, even though I had not used specific passages from the book in question. (I think it was a Mad Scientists Club or a Danny Dunn book, now that I contemplate this, as the plot was a pseudo-science thing similar to what those books used to specialize in.) They said that not only had I STOLEN this author's characters, I had not even been faithful to them--I had put MY words in their mouths and made them act in ways that faithful readers of the series would know was "out of character." The teacher sent me up to the principal's office, and they called my mother.
The principal and my mother were a bit less outraged and righteous (although my mother has never forgotten this incident, citing it as one reason I shouldn't try to write--"you'll copy without realizing it and get into trouble," just like various Presidential hopefuls have done without getting into any trouble whatsoever). But as a former English teacher herself, the principal suggested that I try an exercise.
"Next time you want to write something, why don't you change the names and ONE THING about each of the characters you admire and want to write about, and write the story? As you go through with these things in mind, that'll make them change, and it'll change into YOUR story. After a few revisions, no one should be reminded of the other author's work when they read your story. The important thing is that you write something ORIGINAL, and YOUR story, not using someone else's stuff or style."
I've never forgotten this. I do think it was unfair, but hell, worse things happened to kids back then (as I say, the world was QUITE different from the way it is NOW.) I suppose that practicing by doing pastiches might help authors to develop their own voices and styles, but as far as spending a lot of time doing that, I think instead that fanfic authors would be well served to spend all that time and effort developing their OWN characters and world. It simply isn't that difficult to do, once you realize what you're doing with the fanfic.
Never have understood, since then, why somebody would want to do fanfic. I always, after this experience, felt I was not qualified to predict what someone else's characters might or might not do. I could see how I'd gotten those characters wrong (once they pointed it out) and was alarmed at the way I had not picked up on some of the subtleties of character portrayal. On the other hand, I was--what? NINE years old?!
(And expected to be Little Miss Perfect, which was the way the world worked back then.)
To explore the appeal of "a built-in audience" a bit more, let's read what author Ally Carter wrote in HER weblog: "Blogging when you have no audience is very much like singing in your bathroom--no one is going to hear you."
To this I say, "Wrong! My pets DEFINITELY can hear me. The dog even sings along!"
That's like saying that when a tree falls in the forest, the sound waves don't emanate from the source. All the little squirrels hear that, for sure.
So have a nice day, all you squirrels out there.
Anyhow . . . some authors really get upset when you use their characters or worlds. So why not change the names of characters and places and just do your own? You might find that your mind starts making it into a new creature. But you wouldn't be able to go to an established fan community and get the stuff read, which I suppose holds its own appeal. You'd have an instant fan club of sorts . . . something that I admit does seem pretty cool.
Karen Miller (K. E. Mills,ke_miller) quotes the writers of some current television show or another as saying: "We can aspire to anything, but wanting it doesn't mean we'll get it."
Wow . . . what an un-politically/popculturally correct admission. Takes guts to say it.
She goes on to write, "Can that mantra be chanted at all the Idol wannabes who think that just because they want to be a pop star it means they're automatically entitled, even though they can't carry a tune in a bucket? Somehow the idea of self-belief has been twisted into this ridiculous notion that all people can have all things, just because they want them. They can't. [...] [L]earning to live within one's capabilities is a crucial part of growing up."
I agree. Some of my friends' children (cool as they are) seem to believe that they can do ANYthing and will succeed. They have the notion that they contain GREATNESS*, and that to fulfill their potentials, they need do nothing more than smile and be their lovable selves. They don't get the concept of hard work and striving that may eventually, no matter how much talent you believe you have and how hard you work, still fail.
*The belief-in-inner-greatness part is good, I suppose. But they can't fathom that perhaps all of us great people could be talented and work hard and STILL LOSE. You can be a loser like me--just follow these ten simple steps!
Karen continues, "We all have limitations. We need to find what they are, accept them, and pour all our energy into doing what we are good at. It's no shame that we can't sing, or act, or dance. The shame comes in refusing to accept our weaknesses as well as our strengths--and heaping abuse and rage on people who see the truth. Or abusing the folk who have been gifted with what we want, and missed out on. [...] I believe we should discover our unique gifts and share them with the world. Pour our hearts and souls into polishing what we are good at, instead of pining after what we're not good at, and thereby let our own gifts atrophy or never blossom into greatness."
Hear, hear.
So that's why I am searching for the gift I must have. I thought I knew what it was and had identified it as writing (which had been confirmed by teachers, contest judges, and various others--who could, of course, be wrong), but if you can't get things PUBLISHED, you aren't an author, just a scribbler.
That's how the world sees it. And who am *I* to argue?
(A pathetic, misguided loser. Or so says the world whenever someone argues with it.)
But then I CAN'T DRAW, either. Can't even draw flies. Keep getting the eyes wrong.
# # #
"The people who believe in _The Secret_ and other 'prosperity Gospel' systems say that you can have anything, but that's not true . . . you can ASPIRE to anything, but it doesn't mean you're going to get it, except right between the eyes."--Shalanna
Mama's Thought For the Day: Whatever you give a woman, she's going to multiply it. If you give her a house, she'll give you a home. If you give her groceries, she'll give you a meal. If you give her a smile, she'll give you her heart. She multiplies and enlarges what is given to her.
So if you give her any crap, you will receive a ton of sh*t in return.
[EDIT: If you make a typo in an "lj user" command, you will find that it takes every word of your post and makes it into a quotation by itself. Check that stuff before you click on "post." Or at least COPY the entry to your local clipboard before you click post!]
Yeah, it is. Gimme a break . . . I know I'm not any kind of authority and that I've even come out and ADMITTED that I'm not going to have any commercial success with fiction, but I've spent an awful lot of time studying related topics, writing fiction, and analyzing fiction (mine and others'), so I keep thinking that some of my experiences might benefit those of you who still have a chance out there. So sue me. If you don't like it, just skip the entry.
This morning, author Barbara Ferrer (
fashionista_35) analyzed some of the reasons why authors might object to fan fiction--and it's a cool scenario that she sets up, one I would never have thought of. See it on her journal. Then go read the "Smart B*tches, Trashy Books" site to see the original discussion. I think they make some valid points, although they're not the points I would have made.As far as *I* am concerned, I wouldn't mind if somebody wrote a really screwed-up pastiche of _Dulcinea_ or a totally out-there Ariadne mystery and nailed it to all the telephone poles in town . . . I would be so gobsmacked at the notion that someone thought it was good enough to copy/steal that you'd have to scrape me off the floor with Britney Spears' girdle. I would find it flattering. If people became aware of my work through that, even if they were disrespectful of it (what ELSE is new?) and disdainful of it (just like everyone else), I would be of the notion that "there is no such thing as BAD publicity." After all, have not the many pop divas of the world benefited from their bad publicity, almost as much as from their good publicity? Same with Dallas Cowboys football players of yore. No, it wouldn't bother me if people did this, EXCEPT that I would caution that they're wasting their time, as the original never sold, so why not start something of their own that might turn out salable? (Yes, I know that many people feel they don't want to sell and that they just want to play . . . I still think it's a helluva lot of work even to write a BAD novel, and I always have so much invested by the end that I want to see it published. For real. Not just on my journal.)
fashionista_35's analysis, however, presents one good scenario of how an author might become upset with fanfic writers. So many people think nothing of taking another person's intellectual property and claiming it's "fair use" or that they're a "public figure" and therefore can have whatever they do copied (I've heard all sorts of screwed-up notions about THAT from people who should know better.) Here's what I wrote in her comment thread.When I was a kid in fourth grade, I got into trouble for fan fiction of a sort. We were assigned to write a story. I had recently read some series book or another (not Bobbsey Twins, as I had finished that series already) and had been impressed by the convoluted-but-plausible (to my fourth-grade mind) plot and one or two then-memorable characters. So I wrote a pastiche-type story using the first names of two of the characters and a very similar plot *moved from Montana to Texas* and with a few other minor changes that polished the serial numbers off a bit. I was impressed with my work because I had actually written my own dialogue and made up a lot of stuff . . . y'know. (This would have been *ahem* before 1970, when school was quite different from now.) I didn't see any problem, as the series was well known to be written as work-for-hire under a pseudonym, and I saw this as just another episode.
Well, the teacher and PRINCIPAL didn't. The day that the stories came back graded, several kids were asked to read theirs aloud to the class, and several got awards. I sat there waiting for mine to be handed back, and got more and more upset as nothing was said. The bell rang, and the teacher asked me to stay a moment and come up to her desk.
I had been given an F. I was an A+ student and usually the one who got singled out as having done the best job, etc., so this was a complete shock. The teacher said I was no better than a plagiarist, even though I had not used specific passages from the book in question. (I think it was a Mad Scientists Club or a Danny Dunn book, now that I contemplate this, as the plot was a pseudo-science thing similar to what those books used to specialize in.) They said that not only had I STOLEN this author's characters, I had not even been faithful to them--I had put MY words in their mouths and made them act in ways that faithful readers of the series would know was "out of character." The teacher sent me up to the principal's office, and they called my mother.
The principal and my mother were a bit less outraged and righteous (although my mother has never forgotten this incident, citing it as one reason I shouldn't try to write--"you'll copy without realizing it and get into trouble," just like various Presidential hopefuls have done without getting into any trouble whatsoever). But as a former English teacher herself, the principal suggested that I try an exercise.
"Next time you want to write something, why don't you change the names and ONE THING about each of the characters you admire and want to write about, and write the story? As you go through with these things in mind, that'll make them change, and it'll change into YOUR story. After a few revisions, no one should be reminded of the other author's work when they read your story. The important thing is that you write something ORIGINAL, and YOUR story, not using someone else's stuff or style."
I've never forgotten this. I do think it was unfair, but hell, worse things happened to kids back then (as I say, the world was QUITE different from the way it is NOW.) I suppose that practicing by doing pastiches might help authors to develop their own voices and styles, but as far as spending a lot of time doing that, I think instead that fanfic authors would be well served to spend all that time and effort developing their OWN characters and world. It simply isn't that difficult to do, once you realize what you're doing with the fanfic.
Never have understood, since then, why somebody would want to do fanfic. I always, after this experience, felt I was not qualified to predict what someone else's characters might or might not do. I could see how I'd gotten those characters wrong (once they pointed it out) and was alarmed at the way I had not picked up on some of the subtleties of character portrayal. On the other hand, I was--what? NINE years old?!
(And expected to be Little Miss Perfect, which was the way the world worked back then.)
To explore the appeal of "a built-in audience" a bit more, let's read what author Ally Carter wrote in HER weblog: "Blogging when you have no audience is very much like singing in your bathroom--no one is going to hear you."
To this I say, "Wrong! My pets DEFINITELY can hear me. The dog even sings along!"
That's like saying that when a tree falls in the forest, the sound waves don't emanate from the source. All the little squirrels hear that, for sure.
So have a nice day, all you squirrels out there.
Anyhow . . . some authors really get upset when you use their characters or worlds. So why not change the names of characters and places and just do your own? You might find that your mind starts making it into a new creature. But you wouldn't be able to go to an established fan community and get the stuff read, which I suppose holds its own appeal. You'd have an instant fan club of sorts . . . something that I admit does seem pretty cool.
Karen Miller (K. E. Mills,
ke_miller) quotes the writers of some current television show or another as saying: "We can aspire to anything, but wanting it doesn't mean we'll get it."Wow . . . what an un-politically/popculturally correct admission. Takes guts to say it.
She goes on to write, "Can that mantra be chanted at all the Idol wannabes who think that just because they want to be a pop star it means they're automatically entitled, even though they can't carry a tune in a bucket? Somehow the idea of self-belief has been twisted into this ridiculous notion that all people can have all things, just because they want them. They can't. [...] [L]earning to live within one's capabilities is a crucial part of growing up."
I agree. Some of my friends' children (cool as they are) seem to believe that they can do ANYthing and will succeed. They have the notion that they contain GREATNESS*, and that to fulfill their potentials, they need do nothing more than smile and be their lovable selves. They don't get the concept of hard work and striving that may eventually, no matter how much talent you believe you have and how hard you work, still fail.
*The belief-in-inner-greatness part is good, I suppose. But they can't fathom that perhaps all of us great people could be talented and work hard and STILL LOSE. You can be a loser like me--just follow these ten simple steps!
Karen continues, "We all have limitations. We need to find what they are, accept them, and pour all our energy into doing what we are good at. It's no shame that we can't sing, or act, or dance. The shame comes in refusing to accept our weaknesses as well as our strengths--and heaping abuse and rage on people who see the truth. Or abusing the folk who have been gifted with what we want, and missed out on. [...] I believe we should discover our unique gifts and share them with the world. Pour our hearts and souls into polishing what we are good at, instead of pining after what we're not good at, and thereby let our own gifts atrophy or never blossom into greatness."
Hear, hear.
So that's why I am searching for the gift I must have. I thought I knew what it was and had identified it as writing (which had been confirmed by teachers, contest judges, and various others--who could, of course, be wrong), but if you can't get things PUBLISHED, you aren't an author, just a scribbler.
That's how the world sees it. And who am *I* to argue?
(A pathetic, misguided loser. Or so says the world whenever someone argues with it.)
But then I CAN'T DRAW, either. Can't even draw flies. Keep getting the eyes wrong.
"The people who believe in _The Secret_ and other 'prosperity Gospel' systems say that you can have anything, but that's not true . . . you can ASPIRE to anything, but it doesn't mean you're going to get it, except right between the eyes."--Shalanna
Mama's Thought For the Day: Whatever you give a woman, she's going to multiply it. If you give her a house, she'll give you a home. If you give her groceries, she'll give you a meal. If you give her a smile, she'll give you her heart. She multiplies and enlarges what is given to her.
So if you give her any crap, you will receive a ton of sh*t in return.
[EDIT: If you make a typo in an "lj user" command, you will find that it takes every word of your post and makes it into a quotation by itself. Check that stuff before you click on "post." Or at least COPY the entry to your local clipboard before you click post!]
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2008-09-26 04:23 pm (UTC)Aaaack!!
Date: 2008-09-26 04:50 pm (UTC)But! But!! And again, but!
LJ was unusually good and sent me the copy of your comment!
You wrote:
+ + + + + + + + + + re-post +++++++
Subject: fanfic and the secret
I don't get the whole fanfic thing either.
I know people that spend a good portion of their life immersed in it (at what I consider to be the expense of other areas of their lives)
Yes, writing, writing anything, especially something that you love is a good exercise, but I wonder how much one develops as a writer trying to stay true to someone else's character rather than creating their own.
I wonder what they could do with their lives and their writing if they spent at least half of the time they spent on fanfic writing their own original creations or non-fiction. (or heaven forbid stepping away from the computer and doing something else for a while)
In any event, it's not my business, but I do wonder.
I believe in the general idea that if we put positive energy out there, we get positive things back, just as I believe that if we approach the world with a defeatist attitude we're going to bring that into our life.
But IMHO, we don't get anything in this world without working for and towards it.
Sitting around thinking about bringing good things into our life is nowhere near as productive as actually taking action to move towards that goal.
Then again, I'm weird.
+ + + + + + + + + + end repost +++++++
I think you're absolutely right--we need to work towards our goals. And we need to stretch--so we shouldn't immerse ourselves in ANY fandom without any time off. I try not to be as defeatist all the time as I am sometimes in my posts (I'm using an ironic tone in some of my posts, and other times it just seems better to be honest), too, so that I don't bring on even more misery. There's gotta be a point between Pollyanna (who wasn't as clueless in the real books) and that robot in the "Hitchhiker's Guide" series.
*grin*
no subject
Date: 2008-09-26 04:28 pm (UTC)I'm not involved in any fanfic communities anymore. But I was, for a while, so a lot of my friends still are active. I read their fics, even though they've moved on to fandoms I don't follow, TV shows I don't watch, books I've never read. I still read their fics, and sometimes I'll glance at Wikipedia to see what the book/TV show is about, so I'll know.
These are very good fics, I'll add.
What fanfic can do that original fic can't, is that it presents you with characters you already know, and does nothing to introduce them to you. You know the characters, you know their framework. That's already set up. Structurally, you have an introduction before the writer even begins writing-- just the cut tag, usually, that says Character X, Character Y, Rated R, A/U. (Most of the ones I read are.)
Having taken this framework, the ficcer now can strip out the specific things that the original author put in, as they're not necessary-- you already know what they are.
In the spaces they leave behind, the ficcer can now weave something you never would have thought of, can play with the expectations set up by the conventional framework, and can muse, indirectly and subtly, on points that never would come up in commercial fiction. There is room enough, and time, to twist expectations, to rearrange perspectives, to reveal things that the original author may or may not have intended.
Another aspect of fanfic, instead of pro-fic, is that you are allowed to do it just for fun. There doesn't have to be a point. There doesn't have to be a punchline. It can just be porn, for people who usually don't indulge in such. It can just be ruminations. There's no pressure. It's like the difference between doing a craft for the fun of it-- say, my embroidery habit-- vs. making something to sell. You can experiment. You can try all kinds of things that you're not sure you can pull off.
I'm just saying. Fanfiction isn't about creating new stories. It's about playing with the structure of storytelling, for a relatively insular community that at the same time is usually not your normal circle of friends. It is a social phenomenon. It is not the same as writing.
But I have learned more about writing from fanfic (which, again, I really don't do anymore) than I did from my B.A. in Creative Writing.
It has its place. It does things you can't do in original fiction. And it has a lot to teach.
Of course authors have a right to not enjoy it. And of course most of it is dreck, and many of the people who do it have inflated senses of self-importance. But I haven't seen anyone make the above point yet. It definitely fulfills a role that original fiction doesn't.
no subject
Date: 2008-09-26 04:56 pm (UTC)However, if you could get across to these authors that it is more of a SOCIAL PHENOMENON--which is a coinage I think you should get some good credit for!--than an exercise in manipulating THEIR worlds in order to give them grief, maybe they would be calmer about it. I don't know how we would get them to see it this way . . . but if they COULD, it might lower their blood pressure, and they could relax. In 500 years, who's gonna know the difference anyway (as Grampa used to mutter as he picked up his scattered socks)?
I've often yelled at the movie screen, "Why didn't they do THIS?" There are things that I wish the screenwriters or novelists had done that they didn't do. I see the appeal of allowing this to happen. It's like mentally rewriting the ends of books that ended badly (which I have also done.) But . . . it's tough reconciling the two points of view.
Thanks for writing!
no subject
Date: 2008-09-26 06:26 pm (UTC)P.
no subject
Date: 2008-09-26 10:11 pm (UTC)I can, on the other hand, understand why some creators don't allow it. Some of the stuff which gets done with children's characters and cartoons makes me want to throw up. I know that as an author, I'd be plenty mad if someone did that with my characters. That's not what they were meant for and I can't honestly see how anyone could have come up with such activities and pairings.